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Tim Davies

Live Blogging from Workshop 277: The Voice of Young People - ChildNet and NetAman

We've got lots of coverage from the ChildNet and Cyber Peace Initiative session earlier on this morning. You can read Marsha's reflections on the session here, and below is the Live Blog I ran during the session.

A live blog tries to capture points as they are made, and using CoverITLive we've woven in twitter messages and comments from people outside the event.

This afternoon there will be a session exploring the Future of Youth Participation in IGF and we will try and report on that too.

11:31
timdavies:
Extra chairs being put out in a packed Siwa room ready for the Childnet Youth IGF Project session on involving Children and Young People in the IGF.
Monday November 16, 2009 11:31 timdavies
11:34
timdavies:
Just waiting for things to start...
Monday November 16, 2009 11:34 timdavies
11:35
timdavies:
Introduction: Session is joint run between ChildNet and Cyber Peace Initiative. Great to see young people here at IGF.
Monday November 16, 2009 11:35 timdavies
11:35
timdavies:
This will be an interactive session. Hearing direct from young people.
Monday November 16, 2009 11:35 timdavies
11:37
timdavies:
Lucinda & Ellen from Childnet: Youth IGF Project has been running from around past four months. ChildNet focussed on making internet safer for children - but through promoting the positive.
Monday November 16, 2009 11:37 timdavies
11:38
timdavies:
Ellen (Education manager at ChildNet): I spend a lot of time going into schools talking to young people about safety. But, ChildNet cannot reach all young people in the world - so we develop websites. Recently won an award for our KidSmart Website.

Young people were involved in helping us reshape the site. So it now covers extra elements, such as Digital Footprints
Monday November 16, 2009 11:38 timdavies
11:39
timdavies:
ChildNet use videos from young people giving advice.

Using 'Digital Native', 'Digital Immigrant' distinction - let 'Digital Natives' talk.

But - everyone here is also an expert.
Monday November 16, 2009 11:39 timdavies
11:40
timdavies:
Ask young people their views: "ask the future".

(Own comment: must understand young people as present, not just future....)
Monday November 16, 2009 11:40 timdavies
11:41
timdavies:
Lucinda: At last IGF the lack of youth participation was criticised.

This project has been using outreach through packs for schools, clips on YouTube, interaction on social networks such as Facebook etc.
Monday November 16, 2009 11:41 timdavies
11:42
timdavies:
Ellen: We want to encourage other countries to take this distributed approach.

Ellen: Making the IGF interesting was quite a chalenge in itself. We had to do a lot of work to make this interesting for young people. Had to think about how we could get young people to access these different subject headings.

Monday November 16, 2009 11:42 timdavies
11:44
timdavies:
Ellen: Used example of question "If an Alien came to earth would they be able to find out about everything?" - intended to dig into whether or not young people throught there was a diversity of information on the Internet.

Also asked people about whether/how they feel safe? And who they thought controlled the Internet.

Booth 9: See the images that young people drew of their thoughts on 'What the Internet Looks like'
Monday November 16, 2009 11:44 timdavies
11:44
timdavies:
Lucinda: The categories of IGF are tricky to keep everthing boxed into. Lots of synergies and cross overs.
Monday November 16, 2009 11:44 timdavies
11:46
 [Video file] YouTube: BlNXh2oRX2Y
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Monday November 16, 2009 11:46
11:46
timdavies:
Ellen/Lucinda: Showing this video of young people
Monday November 16, 2009 11:46 timdavies
11:47
Twitter
rafik:
@timdavies about youth don’t forget our workshop in afternoon :) #igf09
Monday November 16, 2009 11:47 rafik
11:47
Twitter
eroticsindia:
This participatory session a result of criticism at last IGF that there was no youth participation #genderigf2009 #apc #igf09
Monday November 16, 2009 11:47 eroticsindia
11:47
Twitter
eroticsindia:
Childnet and CyberPeace Initiative bring children and youth to the IGF for the first time #genderigf2009 #apc #igf09
Monday November 16, 2009 11:47 eroticsindia
11:52
timdavies:
Video finished. ChildNet handing over to Cyber Peace Initiative - but do drop by ChildNet stand to pick up poster of key messages from young people
Monday November 16, 2009 11:52 timdavies
11:53
Twitter
timdavies:
http://pic.gd/13f54e showing youth igf project video in sows room #igf09 #youth
Monday November 16, 2009 11:53 timdavies
11:53
timdavies:
Cyber Peace Initiaive is multi-stakeholder project. Youth element is called 'NetAman' - and is a youth group from Egypt.
Monday November 16, 2009 11:53 timdavies
11:54
timdavies:
CPI aims to: "Empower young of any nationa, through ICT..."

Three elements: Empowerment, Safety, Creativity
Monday November 16, 2009 11:54 timdavies
11:54
timdavies:
CPI Holds 'Cyber Peace Camps' as well as range of other programmes.
Monday November 16, 2009 11:54 timdavies
11:55
timdavies:
Why youth? Youth as "Digital Natives" is key framing for CPI.

Monday November 16, 2009 11:55 timdavies
11:56
Do you think the 'Digital Natives' / 'Digital Immigrants' contrast is a good one?
Yes
( 0% )
No
( 100% )
Sometimes
( 0% )
Not sure
( 0% )

Monday November 16, 2009 11:56
11:58
timdavies:
CPI has looked expicitly at how it can scale - working with Core NGOs, and with contracts with other NGOs, training people in governates etc.

Ambitious plans to scale. 25 focus NGOs, 125 Focus NetAmanians, 125 Focus Parents.
Monday November 16, 2009 11:58 timdavies
11:58
timdavies:
Net Aman is combination of Egyptian word for Safety and English word for Internet
Monday November 16, 2009 11:58 timdavies
11:59
timdavies:
Name was chosen by young people. Went through stages of preparation, launch and scaling. Worked with ChildNet in first workshops.
Monday November 16, 2009 11:59 timdavies
12:00
timdavies:
NetAman carried out survey of how young people use the Internet. Not clear that answers truly represented young people's views.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:00 timdavies
12:01
Twitter
johnpopham:
@timdavies The point I make is that we all grew up after invention of musical instruments. How many can play them? #digitalnativestosh
Monday November 16, 2009 12:01 johnpopham
12:01
timdavies:
NetAman has created own safety materials, and translated / adapted materials from ChildNet.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:01 timdavies
12:02
timdavies:
Last year NetAman trained 12,000 students. Disseminating online safety messages.

Introduced new programmes in Universities, with 40 sessions reaching 1500 beneficiaries.

Also used telecentres as means of dissemination.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:02 timdavies
12:02
timdavies:
Through the Telecentres, Net Aman reached around 42,000 young people & have mobile unit that can reach out to the community in 8 Governates.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:02 timdavies
12:04
timdavies:
Net Aman has reached out to others internationally to share learning.

NetAman wasns to create a sustainable model, with core facilitators, NetAman, partners & stakeholders.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:04 timdavies
12:04
timdavies:
For the future - NeAman interesting in replicating the model internationally; to document the CPI; to form a youth advisory group; creating a virual community of young people' creating a large local and international base of traininers able to pass on Internet safety messages.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:04 timdavies
12:05
Twitter
pranesh_prakash:
@timdavies: You might then be interested at a report by @cis_india on a different take at DNs: http://tr.im/F3tk
Monday November 16, 2009 12:05 pranesh_prakash
12:06
timdavies:
(Good discussions of native / immigrant dichotomy on Twitter)
Monday November 16, 2009 12:06 timdavies
12:06
timdavies:
Net Aman facilitator handing over to young people to share their views.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:06 timdavies
12:07
timdavies:
YP from YouthIGF: Had talks from Diplo to explain Internet Governance - and we were equipped to work with our friends to talk about governance and explore Internet to create better society.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:07 timdavies
12:07
timdavies:
YP(2): We had a lot of time talking about risks, and the things we are afraid of on the internet, and we had experts who could explain to us the things we don't understand.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:07 timdavies
12:09
timdavies:
YP from NetAman: I'm from Egypt. 50% of the Egyption population are youth. So the Youth must be involved. Internet is becoming available in every language. What I'm afraid of the most is the impact the Internet could have on creating a better future.

The Internet inevitably has an impact on our future.

When you apply for a job, they may check your previous information on the Internet
Monday November 16, 2009 12:09 timdavies
12:10
timdavies:
YP(2) from NetAman: What freaks me out is that technology develops at 'speed of light' but law is not advancing as fast. So we need to protect ourselves - and we need to work for a better future.

We need to take action. Change how you perceived the Internet. Don't just use the Internet for chatting, but use the Interent t talk about important issues.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:10 timdavies
12:10
Twitter
petecranston:
@timdavies discussion better focused on different Internet perspectives/usages: age/internet experience one dimension 2 explore #igf09 #yigf
Monday November 16, 2009 12:10 petecranston
12:11
timdavies:
YP(3) from Cyber Peace Camp: Thanks to Intel for sponsoring Cyber Peace Camp.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:11 timdavies
12:11
timdavies:
YP(4) from Cyber Peace Camp: Good to take part in CPI, but people need to hear youth more. Should be involved in policy making on this to a greater degree.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:11 timdavies
12:13
timdavies:
YP(5) from Cyber Peace Camp: I'm from Italy - had a great experience here in Sharm El Sheik. We've had the opportuniy to talk about the Internet. We talked about access, safety, securiy and openness. We had the oppotunity to discuss and to question ourselves.

We are all users of the Internet, but we never question ourselves.

We have to take the Internet seriously. I often go to the Internet thinking I can do anything.

We were a big international group - and we had chance to think about different ways the Internet represents our countries.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:13 timdavies
12:14
timdavies:
YP(5) from Cyber Peace Camp: It is really important that the Interent stays open.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:14 timdavies
12:17
timdavies:
YP(6) from Cyber Peace Camp: I want to share with you one of the best suggestions from one of our friends from the UK. We talked about the privacy policies of the Social Network Sites - you know how long and complicated the privacy policies are.

I want to tell you about my own experience. I don't want to name any particular sites.... but, when I signed up for Facebook [Laughter]... I looked through the long list of terms, but I just pressed continue.

I've been using Facebook for years, and so I've got around 500 pictures up there. But at CPI I heard that one of the things in the policy of the SNS was that the site can use my pictures without my pemission, and use them in any way they want.

(Own note: this is not entirely correct. The terms require Facebook to re-use images, but not an active licence for Facebook to exploit other's images.)
Monday November 16, 2009 12:17 timdavies
12:17
timdavies:
YP(6) from Cyber Peace Camp: We've learnt a lot about Internet Governance in past few days.

We were not engaged in the past - but now we want to be engaged in the future.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:17 timdavies
12:18
timdavies:
YP(7) from Cyber Peace Camp: I'm from Egypt. The best way for us to change the Interent is for us to change ourselves.

When we think about how to behave differently when downloading a file, or opening an e-mail - then when one person does it, more people will start to do it - and it will grow.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:18 timdavies
12:19
timdavies:
Andrew Miller of British Parliament: The world is in the mess it is because of my generation. I've long throught that we need to have terms of service clear. I said this to Bill Gates about software packages many years ago.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:19 timdavies
12:21
timdavies:
Andrew Miller: Internet is moving at speed of light. Parliaments are very bad at moving fast enough to keep up. That's why I think the IGF process helps to inform and keep us ahead.

Andrew Miller MP: Put yourself in my position - what would you do?
Monday November 16, 2009 12:21 timdavies
12:22
timdavies:
Reply from YP: Were not allowed to vote for you. So, when it comes to the Internet, you should put a part in the law where young people are able to vote on the laws.

Young people should be involved in forming the policy: deciding on what should be encouraged or punished.

Enage youth in forming the policies as we go along.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:22 timdavies
12:22
timdavies:
Floor being opened to second row of young people here.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:22 timdavies
12:23
timdavies:
YP from Sweeden: Many young people are afraid of what the Government is doing on the Internet. One of the important steps for Governments is to generate some goodwill. We often see Governments as an illegal force.

Let's not have government as Big Brother, but let us have government taking care of young people on the Internet.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:23 timdavies
12:24
timdavies:
YP (Liam) from UK: Young people play an important part and role in the Internet. A lot of young people aren't interested in the Government. We do need to do more to identify what the youth think.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:24 timdavies
12:26
timdavies:
Question from YP: What do you think are the causes of Internet dangers?

Reply: The easy answer is that what is wrong is us. Many young people are struggling because they don't know what appropriate behaviour online. We used to get table manners because our parents taught us.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:26 timdavies
12:26
timdavies:
Andrew Miller: Amir has the answer. He said in his contribution that we all should think.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:26 timdavies
12:27
timdavies:
Andrew Miller: We need young people to give a lead.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:27 timdavies
12:28
timdavies:
Q from delegate: When I was young there was a lot about pen pals. You could make pen pal friends with anyone you like. I'm still in touch with one my pen pals now.

But now it's a lot more complicated Faster than pen pal ideas.

We're in the infancy stage when it comes to legislation.

The privilege youth have when compared to use - is that you guys were born with it.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:28 timdavies
12:28
timdavies:
Almost out of battery on Laptop being used for CoverItLive. I'll carry on taking some notes and will add them later on.

Thanks for following this live reporting for now.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:28 timdavies
12:38
timdavies:
Back online listening to the audio stream - I'll try and keep reporting after a 10 minute gap.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:38 timdavies
12:38
timdavies:
ChildNet are asking us to discuss 'Online Rights'
Monday November 16, 2009 12:38 timdavies
12:40
timdavies:
Delegate: We saw in the video that many young people were to young to use Facebook, but were using Facebook. But why do these young people not have the right to use Facebook...
Monday November 16, 2009 12:40 timdavies
12:41
timdavies:
ChildNet: Digital Citizens was key discussion.

We've talked about rights - the right to use the Internet responsibly and safely. Blocking isn't the answer.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:41 timdavies
12:42
timdavies:
YP: I think that one of our rights is that when we search for information that we really need then I shouldn't have to suspect that it is right or wrong. There might be wrong information - I have to look at many sites to see right information.

The next right is privacy. I should have to give permission for everything - as it is our pictures, our personal stuff.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:42 timdavies
12:43
timdavies:
YP(2): The distinction between online and offline is not really there. In the physical world I have the right to be safe. Online I have the right to save.

We have a right ot know our rights.

We have the right to an Internet that represents us and our culture.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:43 timdavies
12:44
timdavies:
ChildNet: That point of online/offline the same is important.

Young people with disabilities often don't have access to sites - their rights are not the same online.

In the UK people have rights to access every public building, regardless of disability.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:44 timdavies
12:45
timdavies:
Delete from NetAman: Just being listened to is not enough. It is not enough that people just listen to me.

They need to do something.

Facebook, for example, is changing their policy every few months. And they put up an alert saying 'It's a new policy'. But I don't have time to check through all the policy.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:45 timdavies
12:45
timdavies:
Deletage from NetAman: Youth IGF involvement is still to little. ICANN does not have youth in any of it's boards. There are only a few sessions at IGF.

We are supposed to be digital natives, and supposed to be leaders of tomorrow - but we need a role.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:45 timdavies
12:47
timdavies:
Delegate: Education is imporant. There is now in Egypt and many countries in middle east, Comptuer Literacy courses. We need to add Internet usage elements.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:47 timdavies
12:47
timdavies:
CPI: At Cyber Peace Initiaive we have started the process to prepare a tailored curricula for Internet Safety that will be availble at all grades.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:47 timdavies
12:47
timdavies:
Delegate: But remember - you need to educate the teachers as well.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:47 timdavies
12:48
timdavies:
Delegate: We need a 'Youth Dynamic Coalition' - core to IGF.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:48 timdavies
12:49
timdavies:
MP: But I'd like to invite young people to re-invent that prhase 'Dynamic Coalition'
Monday November 16, 2009 12:49 timdavies
12:49
timdavies:
ChildNet: But I worry there is a danger that Young People get separated out into their own specific group.

Everyone in the room already has an interest in Young People.

Rather than separating young people, can we integrate them into every part of the IGF.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:49 timdavies
12:50
timdavies:
Delegate from Intel: Net provides three basic services: (1) E-mail; (2) Discussion groups; (3) Publishing web pages.

The Internet has no HQ. There is no central authority.

This is why IGF, Cyber Peace and others are important. The ethics on the Internet are really up to use to create and abide by.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:50 timdavies
12:51
timdavies:
YP: The Virtual World and Real World are so similar - so why don't we thing about applying the same rules online as if on the offline world.

If I steal or hack in the offline world, I will be punished. This should be the same online.

We also need to have the same rights online: freedom of speech
Monday November 16, 2009 12:51 timdavies
12:52
timdavies:
ChildNet: But with same for stealing online - then just about every yong person in UK would be in prison, as many download music for the Internet.

This is a discussion for another time.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:52 timdavies
12:53
timdavies:
Delegate: Thankyou for this session. It's be facinating to listen to young people. I've been thinking practically about how I could help you. I run an online community of schools - I'd like to invite young people to come onboard to link into policy.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:53 timdavies
12:54
timdavies:
ChildNet: Invites everyone to a debrief.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:54 timdavies
12:55
timdavies:
YP from CPI: In some parts of the world, e.g. areas in Africa, young peopled don't have any Interent access at all. Not even electricy. We should make sure we're not just focussing on developed world.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:55 timdavies
12:55
timdavies:
MP: Someone said earlier that young people not interested in politics. But these are political discussions. You may not realise it - but there is a lot of political discussion here.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:55 timdavies
12:58
timdavies:
Delegate: Very proud of all these young people . This gives us hope for the future.

We started by separating online and offline. But the discussion led us to think that it's not that different.

The way we excercise our rights and responsibilities is how we should interact in the online world.

The Internet is a tool. Some people blur the online and offline world - but is is a tool.

We should not put the burden on the youth, and on rules and regulations online. If we do this then educators and parents are shirking their responsibilities. We need to bring up young people responsibly so they can manage threads and risks online.

There will always be criminals. But we need to use of judgement, to give support to everyone to act responsibly on the Internet and to avoid falling into traps.
Monday November 16, 2009 12:58 timdavies
12:59
[Comment From SangeetSangeet: ]
Great points by last delegate
Monday November 16, 2009 12:59 Sangeet
1:01
timdavies:
Sami from Egypt: Hacking creates problems across borders. I think we need an international organisation
Monday November 16, 2009 1:01 timdavies
1:01
timdavies:
ChildNet Session is now out of time - but can we all thank young people who have been involved today.
Monday November 16, 2009 1:01 timdavies
1:01
timdavies:
[Applause]
Monday November 16, 2009 1:01 timdavies
1:01
timdavies:
YP: We would like to thank all the experts who have helped us in preparation.
Monday November 16, 2009 1:01 timdavies
1:02
timdavies:
ChildNet: What I take away from here is that this is just the start. How are we going to make sure young people are part of the IGF in future.

I also take away a recognition that what we do must be international in outlook.
Monday November 16, 2009 1:02 timdavies
1:03
timdavies:
Cyber Peace Initiative: Presenting completion certificates for young people.
Monday November 16, 2009 1:03 timdavies
1:03
timdavies:
(Who took part in the Cyber Peace Initiative)
Monday November 16, 2009 1:03 timdavies
1:03
timdavies:
Ending the live blogging now. Thanks for following. We'll post this up on the DiploInternetGovernance Blog at http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org later on this afternoon.
Monday November 16, 2009 1:03 timdavies
1:04

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