II Latin American and Caribbean Preparatory Meeting for IGF 2009

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Virginia (Ginger) Paque on July 19, 2009 at 1:25pm

Hi Raquel,
Thanks for posting this information. I look forward to the meeting. As you point out, it is a very important gathering, since LAC is under-represented in the whole IG and IGF process. We should have a Diplo side-meeting, of course. See you there!

Permalink Reply by Virginia (Ginger) Paque on July 20, 2009 at 4:57pm

Hi everybody,
I know more of you are going to be with us in Rio--Deidre, Ivo? Marilia? Please sign in and tell us! Best, Ginger

Permalink Reply by Deirdre Williams on July 22, 2009 at 7:03pm

Yes, I'll be there.
I'm very much looking forward to meeting old friends from before and "de-virtualising" what will be "new" old friends from South America.
It might be interesting to consider, before we get there, WHY LAC is under-represented.
I belong to the silent C - the Caribbean - and to the anglophone/francophone Caribbean which is a minority segregated from a minority. When LACNIC was created Trinidad and Tobago went "south" with the hispanophone islands and Haiti, while the other English and French speaking islands were left with ARIN.
In the first place it seems to me that "C" should stand for the greater Caribbean. While we may be divided by language, in culture we have enough in common to cancel that division. The people who live here now originated in similar places, arrived in similar ways. This time of the year we even face the same hazards from the weather.
However, the bigger issue is the under-representation of LAC. Is this coming out of a general un-willingness to speak, a conflict of language, a type of parochialism which makes the whole region gaze inwards at the region's problems rather than outwards to the global problems?
I would be very interested to learn other people's ideas about this.
Deirdre

Virginia (Ginger) Paque said:

Hi everybody,
I know more of you are going to be with us in Rio--Deidre, Ivo? Marilia? Please sign in and tell us! Best, Ginger

Permalink Reply by Virginia (Ginger) Paque on July 23, 2009 at 2:43pm

Some "brainstorming" ideas--don't take this too seriously... but lets keep the discussion going, please.

Deidre and all...

The phenomenon of under-representation of LAC in international policy processes, particularly relating to IG has always intrigued me. It seems to me, though, that we have to look at Latin America separately from the Caribbean in this case.

A. I think that Latin America and the Caribbean both are perceived as -- and ARE --less critically in need than Africa, so we get less funding. Since our governments tend not to fund NGO activities, that leaves civil society in a pinch.

B. Latin America has an additional language problem. In spite of the fact that Spanish is arguably the second most prevalent language today, for some strange reason, translations go into French first. And, I don't mean to be divisive, but francophones seem more vocal about their rights to translations and to use French. Spanish speakers, in my experience, tend to sit back and watch, and not to demand translators. Portuguese speakers are at an even greater disadvantage--we should study why Brazil manages to overcome this. And what about the Uruguayan participation? What can we learn from that? Uruguay is a small country with a large presence. Is this all because of LACNIC, or is something else going on there?

C. The Caribbean seems to have a lot in common with small island states, but are geographically separate. Maybe they just don't have a strong enough voice? It makes for a good alliance with Latin America.

What do others think?

Permalink Reply by Deirdre Williams on July 24, 2009 at 6:12pm

Although I am associated with the Privacy panel in Rio, my first great love (almost my obsession) is the issue of language and languages.
It was interesting to discover - while Hanane, Jamil and I were finishing the Multilingualism wiki - that there is in fact no language "policy" at Diplo. The use of English is the result of an accident of history all the while based on the convenience of using a lingua franca among disparate languages.
In Diplo I have the advantage of being a first language English speaker, but my first LAC experience was with MISTICA where I belonged to a minute minority. In MISTICA Spanish speakers predominated. I think - and this is strictly a personal opinion - that the hegemony of Spanish was to an extent resented by the luzophones of Brazil, who saw themselves as being rather "left out", while the Spanish speaking majority in their turn resented the dominance of English and to a lesser extent French in global forums. Nevertheless, MISTICA was a cohesive group that produced good work together in spite of the language issue - perhaps they were able to transcend language with common interests.
We have a lot of common interests. If we can be patient and persistent then together we have a useful contribution to make. We just need to be brave enough to speak - and brave enough to be quiet to listen to what other people are saying, no matter which language they are speaking.
Deirdre

Virginia (Ginger) Paque said:

Some "brainstorming" ideas--don't take this too seriously... but lets keep the discussion going, please.

Deidre and all...

The phenomenon of under-representation of LAC in international policy processes, particularly relating to IG has always intrigued me. It seems to me, though, that we have to look at Latin America separately from the Caribbean in this case.

A. I think that Latin America and the Caribbean both are perceived as -- and ARE --less critically in need than Africa, so we get less funding. Since our governments tend not to fund NGO activities, that leaves civil society in a pinch.

B. Latin America has an additional language problem. In spite of the fact that Spanish is arguably the second most prevalent language today, for some strange reason, translations go into French first. And, I don't mean to be divisive, but francophones seem more vocal about their rights to translations and to use French. Spanish speakers, in my experience, tend to sit back and watch, and not to demand translators. Portuguese speakers are at an even greater disadvantage--we should study why Brazil manages to overcome this. And what about the Uruguayan participation? What can we learn from that? Uruguay is a small country with a large presence. Is this all because of LACNIC, or is something else going on there?

C. The Caribbean seems to have a lot in common with small island states, but are geographically separate. Maybe they just don't have a strong enough voice? It makes for a good alliance with Latin America.

What do others think?

Permalink Reply by Diplo IGCBP on August 11, 2009 at 3:23pm

Here is a list of participants: http://lacnic.net/cgi-bin/meeting/list.cgi?lang=sp

Permalink Reply by Virginia (Ginger) Paque on August 11, 2009 at 3:36pm

The LAC Regional IGF has begun. It has a strong emphasis on strategies for the upcoming IGF in Egypt. So anyone interested in LAC issues should post their concerns here so we can add your comments during the meetings. Unfortunately there is not a simultaneous remote participation facet, but the webcasts will be posted later. In the meantime, we can keep you updated here, and add your participation during the meetings. Please let us know what is important to you! Latin America needs to raise its voice.

Permalink Reply by Tracy Hackshaw on September 6, 2009 at 3:30pm

Hi Ginger, Raquel:

Would you or anyone else be able to post the results/outcomes (official and unofficial) of the regional IGF 2009 Prep here for discussion and for formulation of a reasonably united position for IGF 2009?

Permalink Reply by Deirdre Williams on September 6, 2009 at 7:02pm

Tracy Hackshaw said:

Hi Ginger, Raquel:

Would you or anyone else be able to post the results/outcomes (official and unofficial) of the regional IGF 2009 Prep here for discussion and for formulation of a reasonably united position for IGF 2009?

Sorry this is SO long :-(
I was lucky enough to be invited to attend the 5th Caribbean IGF in St Kitts, a week after the Rio meeting.
I'm going to send my VERY ROUGH notes from both meetings - if they don't make sense ask me and I'll try to clarify.
Harmonisation was a big issue at both meetings. Where Ginger reports Raul's description in Rio of IPv4 to IPv6 as a gradual process of merging, Richard Jimmerson from ARIN in St Kitts was insistent on the "separate" nature of the two systems. This is a matter of perspective, but in such a broad arena perspective can be a very important issue. The inequality when it comes to the international movement of information (in essence we always pay them, they never pay us) was a big issue at both meetings. This went with the sub-themes of Internet Exchange Points (IXPs) and the encouragement of local content. I had to choose between writing a report and attending the session on Security in Rio (I wrote the report since that was my reason for being there :-) ) and I had to leave at lunchtime on the second day of the St Kitts meeting so missed the last sessions.
The St Kitts notes are rather more intelligible since I was the only one of us, apart from Bernadette Lewis, the Secretary General of the Caribbean Telecommunications Union (CTU) who had attended both meetings.

LACNIC IGF

“language of the conference” – Spanish not Portuguese

Definition Caribe
End-users – academic and civil society
IPv6
Brazil – bring citizens closer to govt.

Haiti – IXP – eventually accepted after hurricane cut connection both internal and external

Uruguay – policy of connection to ALL schools
OLPC
Hesitation in many small countries which have problems with money, electricity, connectivity, popular will

Caribbean (CTU)
Region in crisis - Internet as a solution
Harmonisation policies, investment
Broadband essential
Political will – balance between votes and Internet IG interest
Right to communicate
Potential of mobile

Digital divide – new users?
Payment goes out, none comes in
Education – keep old model, add new content
Computers to solve absenteeism
Inclusion fund that could be used by civil society
Problem international connectivity
Previous monopoly has become duopoly
Local hosting; local content creation
Education to create demand
Local content for locals
Connect schools
Egovt by mobile in Haiti
Education content production
Knowledge based societies/ICT as a solution
Division of Caribbean LACNIC/ARIN
Interisland traffic
Problem with “bad” content
Importance of involving developing countries in (IG) planning process
Argument for English as lingua franca – interoperability
Technical need is most important
Importance of semantics of domain names
Need for respect of users/ interface manageability
Openness – tension with security/privacy
IP – blocks new solutions and innovation progress
IP affirmative action for developing countries??
Freedom of expression – if you’re mean to me can I be mean back?
Public/private dichotomy
Different attitudes to sexting US/UK
Authoritarian govts. Block freedom of expression in all media
What about cultural differences?
Codes of ethics?
Fund to support local content
NAP can lead to control
Harmonisation
Principles rather than actual policies
Tension – privacy/freedom of expression

Caribbean Internet Governance Forum St Kitts
More information available at : http://www.ctu.int/home


Opening ceremony
Harmonisation (cf Rio) of efforts
IG is local, not global

Day 1
Adam Peake
Multi-stakeholderism
No structure at all, bottom up, open platform
There will be discussion of social networks at Sharm el Sheikh
Day 1 (IGF09) Regional perspectives – what IS the Caribbean
WSIS principles – input from business and civil society
China feels IG job for governments
Arguments to move from informal, unstructured to formal/structured

Nigel Cassimire CTU
Types of stakeholders
(Carib=techies)
(DiploLAC=legal)
Sharing must be lateral and vertical
CTU attempting to harmonise and include
Function of CTU to facilitate and co-ordinate

Christine Runnegar ISOC
Pointed out that the 47 “island” countries are 25% of all countries and therefore have a potentially powerful voice.
Multistakeholder internet governance shapes the future and the use of the internet
IXPs encourage local content and collaboration/harmonisation
Advised against over-regulation (cf Erick in Rio – principles rather than regulations)
Are Internet problems “different” from real world problems?
The next billion will be non-English speaking and non-European
The importance of participation

Sebastian Bellagamba ISOC
Described function of ISOC – developing the Internet rather than using Internet for development; open and voluntary; open standards; train engineers
Trust and identity are core issues??
Internet for everyone to improve people’s lives through open and universal access.
Unthought of changes
Youtube 18% of Internet traffic
Challenges to traditional governance methods
1 The Internet is trans-jurisdictional
2. Internet has no shared model
3. Nothing is new but the challenges seem new

Model
Shared global ownership
Collaborative engagement based on open standards which must make sense to the rest of the community
Key principles – that it should be open, bottom up, consensus based
Multiple actors and processes linked for the health of the whole
Works because people want it to/collaborate, but balance is needed
Users are vital but coordination is needed to support end to end generally
Policies to make internet run – capacity building and training – each system needs other systems
www.isoc.org/pubpolpillar/docs/internetmodel.pdf
Challenge for next billion – capacity & knowledge building.
Disability and the Internet
Participation – we have to be involved
? participation in creating IGF documents?
Roadshow – has presentations on ICANN, ARIN etc.

Frazier – Minister from BVI – economic impact must be demonstrated for government involvement

Bevil Wooding IXPs

Mutual peering traffic exchange – no cost. Currently foreign exchange spent on internal data exchange
https://prefix.pch.net/applications/ixpdir
judgement – foreign is always better
ict for economic salvation?
Must have knowledge based societies
Many advantages – training, retain skilled labour force, way of meeting privacy needs of individual countries – need to maintain privacy of local information locally
IXP makes businesses move closer to customers, cheaper, more efficient, attracts businesses.

Ray Bulengo WIRE IE
Social change not technology

Who will IXPs belong to – operators or regulators?
BVI – money from universal access fund for infrastructure
Effective competition – to push network development
Compare network with networks
The internet economy should create pressure for IXPs
Kindle – totally changes dynamics and cost structure of business BUT what about education aspects??
Also presentation on new kind of wireless.
Day 2
Content
Selby Wilson
Bevil Wooding Congress WBN
Josanne Leonard

Issues –
Amazon kindle and types of material available for it;
Local content in education;
Impact of Economic Partnership Agreement;
Lack of respect for local products;
Intellectual property rights (IPR);
Content licensing – Creative Commons?? Copyleft;
How to protect but at the same time make available;
Need to remember other ICTs – television, radio etc.;
Content defines and shapes reality, culture, identity;
Need for operational leadership and political will
Importance of the contribution of young people;
Branding;
Social networks – creating interest and trust;
Present is era of social relationships

Discussion:
Empower artists with information about licensing;
Regional lawyers need to know about IPR;
Issues need to be discussed at CARICOM policy level;
Branding value of “West Indian” should be used

Richard Jimmerson American Registry for Internet Names (ARIN)
Bernadette Lewis, Secretary General, CTU
IPv4 to IPv6

Issues –
IPv4 addresses depleting rapidly
IPv4 and IPv6 are separate systems
Need to begin take-up of IPv6
Need to ensure that equipment is IPv6 ready
Example of Japan was offered
www.soumu.go.jp/joho_tsusin/eng/pdf/080617_1.pdf
IPv6 is free
There has been successful Caribbean pressure for special IPv6 treatment.
IPv6 gives a competitive advantage.